New recruitment policy - Discussion

what you mean with trial ? first have his trial period before we vote? or first vote and than his trial?
some kind of letter or solicitation letter can be usefull imo....

We can see the last connection on the forum, right?
I'm inactive ingame (Final Exam coming in 2 weeks) but I check the forum everyday.
Didnt read all the posts but an Inactive section seems appropriate.
Also give adminship to people who are active but dont downgrade if they are inactive

I think we should, like sergey said, give the people who'd like to join this clan a trial period. But before that trial period they need to fill in the recruitement list (the list we have now for joining). So first everyone can vote yes/no (maybe in a poll first). If the outcome is YES he can put on the DVASr tags. From that point his trial period has started! Then he plays on the DVAS server, maybe play some mixes with us etc.. And then I think there should be another vote, but now only from the "active" clanmembers who did see him play on the promod server, ... . We musn't only vote on 'skill' then, but also on the social part: 'Is he a nice person to talk with' ; 'Is he nice to everyone in the clan' ; ...

The reason why i think this is a better idea is because i now see a lot of people (not all of them though) who are voting, but they actually never saw the person playing or never had a talk to that person...

This is my opinion about this issue. I also think Rocker is right about the fact ; "once you join, u are in forover" ==> When you are inactive for a reason it is ok!!

PS. Sorry for my spelling sometimes

Nick

Let them apply, make it clear they have a trial period and vote after the trial period.
This way you will know what kind of person they are on TS, in-game and how they interact with others.

I can be all nice in-game and in the mean time actually flame the shit out of you in TS. And all you guys vote on how people interact in-game or how good they are.

Just my two cents

Yeah i agree with juze! It is practicly what i think of it top

Free wrote:

Also give adminship to people who are active but dont downgrade if they are inactive

That's a pretty good idea,Gotta agree with that :>

Jokesy wrote:

Free wrote:

Also give adminship to people who are active but dont downgrade if they are inactive

That's a pretty good idea,Gotta agree with that :>

This would mean that in the end almost eveyone has admin rights...
People get admin rights, go inactive, you need new admins so other people get rights and they don't lose them.

Bad idea

Or, we'll just stick with what we do and pick admins 1-2 times a year, around Christmas and near Spring...

Or how about just look at what situation we're in at any point in time and think about if there's anyone we want as an admin? There doesn't need to be set times for it.  I'd rather not be held to someone thinking "Hey... That time of year again, lets have some more admins".

Excuse me, but I fail to see how terms "recruitment policy" and "administration rights" are even remotely connected. If somebody could explain it to me, I would be so happy. (Not really, just shut up about it) Should you wish to discuss the basis on which we give admin rights to people, make a thread about it. Take heed, though, the discussion might end real quickly.

Now, have we reached anything even close to conclusive with this thread? An essay kind of application could prove useful. I actually thought of it before, then I had to do something else... We would just have to agree whether we want to have the questions list at least almost as it is (with some updating) and just add the essay in the end, or make the whole application to be an essay. Or then, we could go with a shorter and much more straight forward question list with only the basic information like IGN, Xfire name, activity, etc. and then just ask for the rest in the essay.

I don't think it's necessary, or even beneficial to have trials. Every member should 'trial' the applicant anyway, both in game and on a conversation, before giving out their votes. A trial period could be avoided with just requiring the applicants to be regular players on our servers, or otherwise known to most of clan at the time of applying. This would also save us the trouble and possible confusion that could occur due to voting for the applicant twice.

Cheers

Xanatos wrote:

 An essay kind of application could prove useful. I actually thought of it before, then I had to do something else... 

Let me guess, it had something to do with beer?

Well, I don't know if this thread is still going on, because no one has actually said the final solution here, nor has anyone replied in the past couple of days.

Anyways, still going to tell you what I think about it.

A trial.. Well this can be possible, but remember that not everyone knows or is able to make a temporary password on the Teamspeak. The people that are able to, are not always online. So this could waste days of time for the applicant, just because they cannot join the Teamspeak..
Also with a trial, we should make it not that applicants get accepted or rejected just because they are really good or really bad at promod.

I fully agree with the essay though. Would be nice to read about applicants what they like, so we can talk about it in Teamspeak and such.

So maybe even let recruits join the Teamspeak under the normal password?
Wonder where this is going eventually!

About that ts id Erwin, I don't think that's necessary. Me, Tim and Super are some of the people that can add temporary passwords to ts, and i don't think u can find many moments where none of us are online. And even if none of us is, then there's a high chance that practically no one is online, and thus there would be no one on ts either.

so the idea from the"slasher" about the essay and trial is pretty good IMO.
also like some members said: give the recruits a temp password for the ts server....
also someone purposed the idea that the recruit got some kind of an "admingodfather" or we link that to the trial thing.....

The recruitment question list has already been updated to contain less questions and a short essay length of which can be further discussed.

Now, as it still seems to be unclear to some people, everybody has to state their reasons with their vote. This because that way we won't have to worry about people going "no" solely on the fact that the applicant is from certain part of the world. It also helps other members to decide what to vote.

While we're at it, I'd ask everybody to keep their posts in the application to minimum, it's seriously a pain in the ass to try and find those 15 votes in the middle of 45-60 posts of unnecessary bullshit.

In addition, if the applicant can't speak for themselves, the application will be rejected. This meaning that if the anybody asks the applicant a question, no DVAS member answer's it. This goes pretty much in the same category as every applicant posting their own applications.

To solve that problem of it being hard to count the votes, why don't we make it a thing that if ur gonna vote, then start ur post with either 'i vote yes' or 'i vote no' followed by ur reasoning. That way u can see in a glimpse of an eye how many votes someone has.

That too, but it would do already so much if people stopped going off topic in every single application.

- Xana

I'm just going to point out my opinion here. I don't think we should accept applicants that easy. I mean, let's say that Jorma is trying to apply for DVAS, but some ppl in DVAS have something against Jorma. So, Jorma gets 10 yes votes and 5 no votes. That basically means that 1/3 of the clan/voters don't think Jorma should be in DVAS. I'm saying that applicants should only have like 1-2 no votes to 10 yes votes. And I'm proposing that you would have the right to vote only when you have played with the applicant and/or talked with him on Xfire or some kind of chatting program so we could avoid no votes like: "No because i don't like polaks" or "No because his application doesn't seem promising"

Remember this is just only my opinion and it's probably a shitty one.

If people like bob's suggestion, like i do, then here's an idea for a voting quota (since i don't think we have a defined one).
Every applicant has to get 10 yes votes, and for each negative vote u need an extra yes, e.g.: 12 yes votes and 2 no votes = accepted. This also implies that when someone get's 5 or 6 negative votes, that he'll really have to impress other members to get to those 15 or 16 yes votes.
Anyway, just brainstorming here, let me know what u guys think

Bob wrote:

Remember this is just only my opinion and it's probably a shitty one.

That might be because you went by this guide to present it:


Myth, the way you proposed would make it practically impossible to join if you got more than 4 no's as I really don't see a way to get 20+ votes in a fairly short period of time with our current activity. And, well, Bob is saying quite the same, 4 no's would require 20 favouring votes.

As I see it, a minimum of 15 votes with at least 2/3 of them being yes is actually quite optimal. That way a certain level of unanimousity has been reached while voting no actually matters something. Now, back to people getting in "too easily", it's actually more about how easily people vote yes. Raise your standards and it gets harder to get accepted.

Cheers

I am agreeing with KeBob and Myth but the "10 votes requirement" thingy might not work always because in each period we have a certain amount of active/unactive players.
For example: Next month 30 players are going to be active. So in this case the minimum of yes votes should be set on another number, not on 10
Another example: After two months there will be 15 players active. So in this case the minimum of yes votes should be set on another number too.
But since we have alot members, I think that that won't be a problem now and in the future. 

Well I don't want to lead this topic to somewhere else but since people are suggesting, I'd also like to.

Instead of people who can do an application anytime, I think it would be nice if we invite people to join our clan. Example: Rocker and some cool admins** like to see a gamer called "Kurwa1" in the server. They know him pretty well and would like to see him in le clan. So they invite Kurwa1 to join DVAS and if Kurwa1 wants to, he will be able to make an application. Everybody can vote for his app then.

(**Members can suggest the heads and admins to invite someone to the clan or the heads to it by themselves. The heads though are the ones to finally decide wether to invite someone or not.)

Why am I suggesting this? Simply because there are and have been members who didn't intergrate in the clan well or not really. I still see some people who are not talking and are just...'there'. We could also avoid applicants who go inactive shortly after they joined DVAS successfully. And we could avoid more things...


Sorry Xana if this goes off-topic. I wasn't sure if this belongs here or if I rather should've done a new thread about this. ^^


EDIT: I am agreeing with Xana. It seems for me that people give a vote too easily.

This post will be lengthy and will contain stuff that has been said before, skip to the tl;dr section if you're lazy.

Voting

In my opinion, and this one is shared among others, we need to be more selective in voting. You do not need to vote, so if more people would actually consider this a 'yes' or 'no' (both with good reasoning, of course) might be more determinating. People should be more selective in who they want in their clan, but this of course doesn't mean that we should not give people a chance. It has to be fair. I also feel we can't put a number on 'yes' or 'no' votes. Every case is different and I feel that if we generalize too much we'll make mistakes.

I also like the idea of a 'fixed' way of voting on an applicant. Reply with yes or no, then give an explanation. 

Inviting

Great idea in my opinion, a lot of the more active members on teamspeak (for example me, myth, bob...) got invited to join DVAS. It has to be communicated on the forums though, for when people want to join DVAS but see it's invite only, they might think it's too 'elite' or something stupid like that, while I still feel we should be a very open clan, actively trying to get the cool people we know into DVAS while also attracting people who're interested to socialize and have fun with us before they get invited.

Congrats on making it this far, a little joke as a reward: What is red and bad for your teeth? 
A brick

Mentor System

I'll just call it the mentor system, if you want to call it godfather or whatever, fine with me
I personally do not see a big use in this, but if someone can put up a decent system it might result in some new friendships or something like that. I used to be a 'mentor' in another clan because that clan was waaaaaay more sophisticated than DVAS. I feel that our structure & 'friend group' are easily available for new people anyway. In the case that we accept the invite only policy the mentor system becomes useless, obviously (seeing you'll already have someone who invited you).

Trial period

A trial period would solve the abscence of a lot of new members soon after they got accepted. A temporary password can be made for a couple of days at the time, so whenever someone would apply any ts server admin can pm him a personal week password (or whatever the time of a trial period would be). Does this mean you can only join with a mic? No, but you're still more 'in' DVAS if you chill with us at ts while we're on the server or doing whatever we do. You can also feel the DVAS atmosphere there, which is kind of important in my opinion. I'd like to hear ratchet's opinion in this matter the most, seeing he doesn't have a mic and he's a main component of DVAS.

Admin system

Don't know if this is still up for discussion, but don't change anything. We got enough admins and those who deserve it will eventually get it too.

Too Long; Didn't Read

Shame on you, although I'm regarded as a bad admin, my opinion should still be appreciated and cherished

Voting: stricter
Inviting: cool idea
Mentor: might be good, but is it necessary?
Trial period: yes. YES!
Admin system: no changes

This should pretty much cover my personal opinion, sorry for making it this long.